37 Comments

  1. Thank you for sharing that.
    I too have had such attacks from the enemy. (for 30 years)
    I have not had these thought for some months now;
    but when I had them they were over-whelming.
    Here is a trick that really helped me:
    I would ask myself,
    “Do you really want to die?”
    “How do you feel right now?”
    “What in your life is making you so sad?”
    After asking and answering these questions, I got lots of perspective.
    I realized that I didn’t want to die at all.
    I just wanted and needed changes in some areas quite desperately.
    I asked God to help me with these things.
    I said that I was not able alone.
    That’s when I knew for sure it was Satan,
    and that he’d been trying to kill me for a long time!
    One Bronx cheer for Satan!

  2. saikit

    That’s a quick feedback (After I posted it for a couple of hours)

    Thanks you for your honest sharing. There are still a lot to learn and a lot of ground that we have to take back from our enemies Stephanie. The harvest is ready but the workers are few. Fight on.

    We will meet in the air (@Rapture) or heaven (whatever comes first). God bless!

  3. God is merciful, we can only be saved by grace through faith. We should not judge one another based on the works of the law in the flesh. We should trust in Jesus alone. Unfortunately, the enemy deceives many in the world today.

  4. saikit

    Thanks for the comment. Suicide, by definition, is dying in sin, without repentance. “By grace through faith, not by work.” OK But unbelievers are judged because they don’t repent. God is merciful but we have to repent to receive His grace. Being a Christian, or believe in Christ for a period of time doesn’t give us a lifetime automatic, inflowing grace regardless of our state. We can still sin, and if we do, we have to repent and confess our sins.

    God’s wisdom isn’t hidden anymore. We are sons of God and He tells his secrets to us (John 15:15-17). There is no where in the Bible that says Christians cannot die in sins and fall into hell. We cannot create our own definition of “mercy” for God. Allowing unrepented “Christian” into heaven to wreck havoc for eternity isn’t merciful.

  5. saikit

    Are you talking about “Once Saved Always Saved”? If so, then you are adviced to read Can You Lose Your Salvation?

    It’s a very serious matter. Don’t you want to double check if your belief is indeed true? I am sure I am saved right now, but if I sin without repentance and death catches me off guard, then I would go to hell too.

    This is why the Bible says we have to work out our salvation with tremebling and fear. (Philippians 2:12)

    We cannot afford to be presumptuous here and assume what we feel is right.

  6. For I know whom I Have believed (Jesus the Christ) and I am convinced that He is able (powerful enough) to guard (to keep once & for all) what I have entrusted to Him (the Salvation of my Soul) until that day (my earthly death or the rapture; whichever comes first). 2 Timothy 1:12

    For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. Ephesians 2:8,9

    More to come, of course!

    God is the one who chose me & gave me the faith that enabled me to get saved, and not the other way around! It took Him long enough to do it & He’s not about to let me stray or slip away from His hands. If that could happen it would be not only counterproductive but it also would show & prove that Satan & the world are more powerful than Him (God)!!!

    Praise God the Father & his wonderful Son!!!

    When we become “Born Again Believers” (real christians – & thanks to God & his Son for that) we are called to get to know, understand, & realize what God wants us to know, understand, & realize, & henceforth rendered capable to eventually trust & believe. We are saved the moment we realize our lost condition (because of our sinful nature), & in consequence, fuly accept & believe in the one & only remedy to our hopeless situation (Jesus the Christ, the Son of God). When we get to the point where we can really trust & believe we are rendered more capable of abstaining from doing what is wrong & doing rather what is right. All of this is only to please our Lord & Savior (because we love Him & because He first loved us) & that our joy as God’s children may be made full. It is in no way to earn, deserve, or keep our salvation because Jesus the Christ the Son of God did it all once & for all!

    May God & his Son bless you & keep you (if you really know Them) because that’s what it’s really all about; Patrick G.

    There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18

    God does not call his children to fear, to doubt, & to paranoia; but rather to love, joy, hope, & to a blessed assurance of their salvation!!!

    It is important to note that when you first come to Christ, as a lost sinner, you can’t help but to first repent before you get saved. When I truly came to Christ I had to realize that I was a sinner, & in consequence, completely lost. I had to agree that He was completely right about me & that I was wrong. In consequence to that I had to confess my sinful nature, my sorrow & regret for this and then promptly ask Him to forgive me my sins. At that very moment that all of this was said & done (accomplished) I was truly saved!

    As you learn & grow as a christian (spiritually wise) you realize that there’s always more repentance & confession to be done because of the old nature (the old man) that’s still inside of our inner being. One day we wll no longer have this corrupt nature (the carnel minded man) in us but only the Christ like nature (the new nature He gives us when we get saved) forevermore. Thereby, complete & permanent perfection is not for here below but rather for the “Hereafter”! As for the sins that we could not bring up before the Lord, those that we long ago forgot about or that went unbeknownst to us, they are completely covered & cleansed by the shedding of His (Jesus) precious blood when He died on the “Cross”.

    I would have more to share on the subject of “repentance & salvation” but it would be much too long & painstaking for me to do.
    In Christ, Patrick G.

  7. saikit

    For I know whom I Have believed (Jesus the Christ) and I am convinced that He is able (powerful enough) to guard (to keep once & for all) what I have entrusted to Him (the Salvation of my Soul) until that day (my earthly death or the rapture; whichever comes first). 2 Timothy 1:12

    And you can forfeit your salvation, otherwise you no longer have freewill once you become a Christian do you?

    “For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:20

    “When we get to the point where we can really trust & believe we are rendered more capable of abstaining from doing what is wrong & doing rather what is right. ”

    Absolutely. You are right on about faith. The more we truly believe, the more we are able to become like Christ.

    “It is in no way to earn, deserve, or keep our salvation because Jesus the Christ the Son of God did it all once & for all!”

    Is repentent and re-commit one’s faith in God a “way to earn, deserve, or keep our salvation” ?

    Wasn’t that what enabled us to receive salvation in the first place? You didn’t called them a “way to earn, deserve, or keep our salvation” when we did that to become born again.

    How come the requirement to stay in that state suddenly become a “way to earn… salvation”?

    “May God & his Son bless you & keep you (if you really know Them) because that’s what it’s really all about; Patrick G.”

    Amen! If we exercise our faith, He will keep us. Without faith, we can get nothing from God. James 1:6-7 That means a Christian can fail to exercise faith and therefore God won’t keep him.

    See we Christians often sins, and that shows that our faith is not strong enough to let God keep us from temptations.

    “God does not call his children to fear, to doubt, & to paranoia; but rather to love, joy, hope, & to a blessed assurance of their salvation!!!”

    Tell me how is this statement not a form of human reasoning? So would sinners and the unrepented souls going to hell show that God doesn’t love humanity? Would the fact that a Christian can abondant God and choose Hell makes God unloving?

    “I would have more to share on the subject of “repentance & salvation” but it would be much too long & painstaking for me to do.”

    Go ahead and share it. Painstaking? Look at this site.

  8. I would have a lot more to say on the subjects & themes mentioned in the above comments submitted & everything else that I read on this site, but I just don’t have the time nor the energy to do it. Maybe you have the time & energy for it & you obviously love to get into long discussions. Long discussions that often end up in arguments & contestations which is not only counterproductive but a downright waste of time.

    Perfection here below is not what God expects from us, but rather to get to know Him & to love Him with all of our soul, our heart, & all of our might! A relationship – a real & deep relationship! To make the effort to get to know Him is to “Love Him”! Patrick G.

  9. saikit

    “Maybe you have the time & energy for it & you obviously love to get into long discussions. Long discussions that often end up in arguments & contestations which is not only counterproductive but a downright waste of time.”

    Arguments and contestation can be a sign of loyalty and faithfulness to God, see:

    Acts 15: 2″This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.”

    In the time of Acts, some people brought wrong teachings into the churches, and see how Paul and Barnabas reacted?

    And the Bible urges us to contend “earnestly” for the faith that was entrusted to us:

    Jude 1:3-4: Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and
    urge you to contend (earnestly) for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about[a] long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who
    pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

    “Long discussions that often end up in arguments & contestations which is not only counterproductive but a downright waste of time.” “you obviously love to get into long discussions.”

    What I see from these two statement is a direct attack. So you are saying I love to argue and contest, and engage in counterproductive and time wasting discussion.

    I didn’t attack you, but somehow you used loaded language to attack me. If your theology is biblical, it should bear good fruits, not bad fruits such as a vicious attack that is uncalled for.

    Good tree bears good fruits, and bad tree bears bad fruits (Matthew 7:15-21). Choose which one you want to be.

    “Perfection here below is not what God expects from us, “

    Matthew 5: 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    What Jesus says is enough, you should not contradict his words with yours.

    To a church that is not perfect, Jesus says this:

    Revelation 3: 1-3 I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

    Jesus tells them to repent.

    Isn’t that what I have been saying here? If sinned, repent. That’s all.

  10. Our prime cause or call as “Born Again Believers” is to witness of our faith & blessed hope to those that are still lost in their sins. Secondly, to love, pray for, & encourage our brothers & sisters in the Lord (not the contrary). Thirdly, to defend The Lord & “The True Gospel” when the Lord’s name is dragged in the mud & a “Different Gospel” is preached (false gospel).

    I’ll have more to say on “Salvation” but it’ll have to wait until I have the time for it. And when I do it (my next comment) it’ll be found on the “Can You Lose Your Salvation” partner site.

    Patrick G.

  11. “Just an extra”

    And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. (Romans 8:28 – NASB)

    Now isn’t that really beautiful & reassuring. There’s, of course, many other beautiful & reassuring verses of that type in the Bible; no need for being negative, putting everything in question (especially God), then starting to doubt & causing others to doubt too (especially when it comes from so called christians)!

  12. saikit

    ” causing others to doubt too (especially when it comes from so called christians)!”

    So I am a “so called Christian” who “cause other to doubt” now? You might say it wasn’t what you say, but people can read between the line, and so can I. Again, the bad tree bears bad fruits. The good tree bears good fruits. Calling me a “so called Christian” and you might as well say that I am in fact not a Christian at all, because I don’t believe in “Once Saved Always Saved”, or to be more accurate, because I disagreed with you.

    “; no need for being negative, putting everything in question (especially God)”

    It’s not a matter of negative nor positive, but it is a matter of truth. There is no question here, but God told us so in the Bible how to get into heaven–Repent, and believe. We don’t need to put anything in question, especially our salvation. God is very clear with what He wants us to do–repent and believe.

    “Now isn’t that really beautiful & reassuring.”

    The Bible verse you quote is beautiful and reassuring in what it is actually saying, but not in what it didn’t say. What it didn’t say was “Once Saved Always Saved”.

    In fact, Romans 8:28 has very little to do with heaven, hell, or salvation at all. How can you use one non related verse to justify or nullify anything that it is not related to at all?

  13. Just an extra because this site on suicide is nothing else but a serious & discouraging affront to all christians (born again believers), & to God’s tender loving care & protection for His own!
    No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.
    (1 Corinthians 10:13)

    Now it’s true that even a christian might have suicidal thoughts when things get very very hard, but God is faithful & will not allow him to pass on to the act itself. He will come to his rescue at the opportune time!

  14. saikit

    Just an extra because this site on suicide is nothing else but a serious & discouraging affront to all christians (born again believers), & to God’s tender loving care & protection for His own!

    Are you saying that a Christian can never commit suicide successfully?

    No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. (1 Corinthians 10:13)

    Amen, so are you saying a Christian can never fall into temptation and be defeated by it? Like all Christians won’t be defeated by the temptation to commit suicide?

    Like I said over and over again here and in other pages, we must exercise active faith to remain under protection of God, and claim His promises such as this Bible verse.
    What you are advocating is being passive and God will somehow spare us from temptations, which is obviously not the case. If you live on earth long enough you know it, because you yourself are not spared from every temptation 100% do you?

    What you are implying—that we just somehow assume we will never be able to commit suicide because God will protect us no matter what (sounds good but it’s not true, because a Christian can forsake God and goes his own way)— is very dangerous to the souls of every Christian. This is a serious sin to preach a false Gospel.

  15. That’s right it is very dangerous to preach a “false gospel”, but speak for yourself because that is exactly what you’ve been doing everywhere on this site. That’s exactly why I’m not going to continue much longer on this site, only one more time on the “Can You Lose Your Salvation” partner site. I promised that to myself, & nothing else.

    Read Romans 14:19,21,22 & 23 – in particular, the end of verse 23: For whatever is not from faith is sin. Read also, Luke 17:1-3 because that’s what you’re trying to do. Luckily I did not waver from your assaults & accusations because my faith is firm & solid in God & his Word.

    (Luke 17:7-10) – When we’re able to do some good works we are not doing anything out of the ordinary, just what is expected of us & nothing else. If we are ever approved, by God, it is through our faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

  16. saikit

    That’s right it is very dangerous to preach a “false gospel”, but speak for yourself because that is exactly what you’ve been doing everywhere on this site.

    Guys, do not be surprised because of the heavy accusation some people might throw at me and this site. This is normal. In fact, if someone says he is preaching the truth, and he is liked by everyone, then he is either preaching something trivial, or he is preaching the false Gospel. A lot of people are preaching popular and trivial messages that are not a bit controversial.

    For whatever is not from faith is sin

    This is what I have been saying. We have to exercise our faith daily (everyday and every moment), otherwise we might fall into sin (and if we do, we repent). On the other hand, “Once Saved Always Saved” advocates that if you exercise your faith once in a life time, then all is set automatically and you will go on your merry way to heaven no matter what you do throughout your life.

    Read also, Luke 17:1-3 because that’s what you’re trying to do.

    Luke 17: 3 says: If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

    In term of Luke 17: 3, of course this is what I am trying to do. I am preaching the importance of repentance here.

    Basically you are turning Luke 17: 1-2 around and use it against me, saying I am trying to stumble others, but the truth is I am warning my brothers and sisters, and urge them to understand the importance of repentance. Even God says if you sin, you have to repent before you can be forgiven. “if he repents, forgive him”

    If we are ever approved, by God, it is through our faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Sounds good and spiritual, but what does the Bible really say?

    2 Timothy 2: 15

    Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

    Are you correctly handling the truth? Or are you reciting a “Once Saved Always Saved” Calvinistic theology? Do you follow men or do you listen to God?

  17. Stop distorting everything that I say to make it look like I said something that I never thought & never said. In other words, stop putting words into my mouth – you’ve done that quite a few times before. I suppose you got into the habit of doing this to make yourself look good in the eyes of your readers. This is as low down as can be & God surely knows & sees what you’re doing & what you’ve been doing since you started on this site. Cool down Mister know-it-all wih your arrogance, your extreme self-pride, & your self-righteousness or otherwise it’s God himself that will cool you down; and believe me, when that happens it’ll hurt!

  18. saikit

    Stop distorting everything that I say to make it look like I said something that I never thought & never said. In other words, stop putting words into my mouth – you’ve done that quite a few times before

    Now, what exactly are the words that I have put into your mouth?

    otherwise it’s God himself that will cool you down; and believe me, when that happens it’ll hurt!

    Guys, this is a great example of how preachers of false Gospel threaten the people of God into silent. They would try to dominate a congregation through words that sound spiritual, out of context quotes of the Bible, praising the Lord with beautiful words, and put on a beneviolent front. If we don’t buy it, they would start to accuse you of being proud, or whatever. The point of that is to keep you in religious bondage. They would manipulate you if they can. If all else fail, they usually give us some verbal curses or threats like “you are stepping out of God’s will” or “God will discipline you”, and of course Satan would try to carry that out that threat, to make it seems like God is the one who is out to get us because we are proud or whatever, but in fact it is a double wammy of the devil.

    This is a form of witchcraft. The point of that is to control and inflitrate the people of God. Of course Patrick Geoffroy may not know what he is doing, just like those who crucified the Lord on the cross didn’t know what they were doing. However, only the most religious people would do such thing to the innocents, and do it in the name of the Lord too.

    For those of you who are curious, I am very happy today. The debate made my day. This is the attitude guys! Embrace the conflicts with joys. For if you are doing it for the Lord, your reward in heaven is great. In fact, I had a great time laughing when I received the last comment from Patrick.

  19. Anita

    Hi Saikit, Hi Patrick. I have just come across this site and read for ages over all this debate. I must tell you it is certainly not biblical to fight like this about who is right and who is wrong, this debate has been going on for centuries.

    It will never end.

    I have been on both ends. I was indoctrinated from age 16 to 45 by the same doctrine as Saikit, and then found Grace like Patrick and a loving God who has now set me free.

    I do not believe Saikit that it is LOVE to take pleasure in provoking your brother and fellow believer in Christ.
    Nor Patrick can we ever change another person …that is Holy Spirits job. (save your energy for your productive things I suggest..although I agree with your points.)

    LOVE is the fulfilling of the law. I do hope you post this and not edit it…as with blogs it is only right to let all sides be expressed.

    For Jesus My Saviour. May He Bless you both.

  20. saikit

    Hi Anita, thanks for the comment! I didn’t take pleasure in provoking Patrick, and I really didn’t try to provoke him (though I could see why he perceived it that way), but his words: “Cool down Mister know-it-all wih your arrogance, your extreme self-pride, & your self-righteousness or otherwise it’s God himself that will cool you down; and believe me, when that happens it’ll hurt!” really made me laugh, because it just sounds so funny.

    I had spent 10 years believing in what you and Patrick are believing right now, and I did go through all the arguments that Patrick had brought up in the debate before I accepted the “Once Saved Always Saved” theology 10 years ago.

    Last year, I prayed to God one time and asked Him to reveal certain problems, and He quickly led me to understand that Once Saved Isn’t Always Saved. First, I came to learn that there were many people who had near-death experiences and God-given visions, and they reported seeing Christians being in Hell, and then I studied the Bible carefully and found out that God did clearly say that Christians can lose their salvation if they refuse to repent, forsake the faith, or take the mark of the beast.

    Anita, maybe you have found that you can be sure that you are saved now. I am glad when Christians are certain of their standing in Christ at the present, but we can’t assume we will be automatically forgiven if we keep on sinning without repenting.

    Being sure of our salvation and believing in Once Saved Always Saved are two separate things. They have a subtle but important difference.

    If you read my article “Can You Lose Your Salvation“, you will see why I oppose OSAS.

    And my debate with Patrick isn’t about being right or wrong, it’s about defending the truth. The full debate between Patrick and I was actually in Once Saved Always Saved Is A Deadly Doctrine!. He had left other comments in other pages.

  21. Zyk

    I disagree with the passage posted here. Romans 6 is a really good chapter in regards to sinnin while as a slave to sin, and sinnin while as a slave to righteousness. We are no longer under law but under grace (Romans 6:14)
    Now that doesn’t give us permission to sin (Romans 6:15). Basically what this means, when Paul says “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23), he was talkin in regards to bein a slave to sin.
    Picture it like two roads, the road to hell is wide (slave to sin), and the path to heaven is small (slave to righteousness). You guna get hit by some branches and u might stumble with a sin or two along the way, but you are still on the right path. Just cuz u sin doesn’t automatically condemn you to hell, otherwise Romans 6 would be a chapter sayin everyone is guna go to hell the moment you sin, rather then warnin ppl that just cuz ur under grace don’t mean u should sin.
    Sin interrupts our relationship with God, so to sin and keep sinnin purposely is a dangerous road, cuz u can fall from grace. Hebrews 10:26 shows that Christ’s sacrifice is not for people who deliberately sin after receiving the truth. But that is not talkin about a one time sin, but to sin and keep sinnin purposely! So if i blurt out a lie and get hit by a bullet from the sky and die, would i go to hell? No.
    Now in regards to the suicide thing, in all honestly I cannot judge what God would do. However, a Christian in Christ wouldn’t be depressed to commit suicide in the first place i would think (opinion). Then u can ask the question of whether a person is being tortured and they take their life to end the torture faster, I cannot judge what God would do.

  22. saikit

    “So if i blurt out a lie and get hit by a bullet from the sky and die, would i go to hell? No.”

    A real spiritual Christian doesn’t usually die like that. Sadly, most Christians who die that way are already self-deceived to think that they are in good term with God. Christians do die randomly but I believe that those who walk close with God don’t die randomly. They are always watchful and even though they might sin when they can’t help it, God won’t let them die in sins they can’t help but commit. Only those who deliberately keep their pet sins and have the happy go lucky attitude would die in random sins, and thus going to hell.

    “a Christian in Christ wouldn’t be depressed to commit suicide in the first place i would think (opinion)”

    Opinion indeed, and a dangerous one too. It is unrealistic to think that a real Christian won’t get depressed to the point of having suicidal urges. In fact, the spiritual battles are so fierce that it isn’t uncommon to have suicidial idealation, and this is one of the reasons why I felt the need to write this article to warn Christians about suicide and hell.

  23. Interesting. I was inspired by some things you said in another article of yours (10 tips on how to stop being lazy), bookmarked your site and browsed through some more articles… but I think I may have to un-bookmark it. :(

    It seems as though your replies are loaded critically with anger towards anyone who might say something different to what you have said… and reassuring your readers of the heavy accusations being thrown at you.

    Do not get me wrong, I am all for discussion.. (and hey, that is what such blog/comments sections are for) but as you say, this quoting and requoting to show that what you have written here, is the final “truth”.. doesn’t sit too comfortably with me. Is it not possible that you could have made some errors or misjudgements too?

    Kudos for some interesting and controversial (but very important) topics on your site though!

    I just hope that next time I happen to come across your site again — that there is a ‘critical bu sharing and growing together’ kind of discussion — rather than a “you are wrong wrong wrong,, i am right right right” kind of discussion.. which it seems like — to a ‘reader’.

  24. saikit

    I also find your comment interesting. (I actually have a heartedly laugh, not angry laugh I assure you) Hm, usually when I reply I was not in an angry mode though. I quote and requote to reply to specific points that the person brought up.

    I am not sure if some of my points are the final truth, but I would never say that. However, if someone challenges any of my point, all I want is the evidence and reasoning, and I would continue the dialogue with him or her until all arguments exhausted. I was looking for solid cases for me to believe or disbelieve what one was saying, not baseless accusation. This is a way to seek the truth. It’s supposed to be friendly debate. I don’t usually take it personally, but people tend to name calling and slender while they were doing it though.

  25. Kat

    Um… okay, I know I’m young. But… I’m confused. How do you know for absolute certain that you’re going to hell if you commit suicide? Because I’ve tried it many times (always failed), and I want to. Desperately.

    So how do you know that you will? Have you ever committed suicide and went to hell? I doubt it. where does it flat out say “you’ll go to hell if you kill yourself”. Are you a pastor or something?

    I still want to die.

  26. saikit

    You may want to check the links in this post, which will bring you to my other articles that explains why. If we choose to die in sin, then where else can God send us to if not hell?

    Choosing to end one’s life is a sin.

    We all can know God’s will by studying the Bible. Truth is not solely owned by the professional (pastor or something). In fact, Jesus was most angry with the religious authorities of his time on earth, who are the equivalent of many pastors, priests, rabbis.. of today.

  27. saikit

    I understand it is very tough to live on earth. Maybe you want to tell me how you feel? You can email me or skype with me. Just drop an email throught he contact form.

  28. CC

    Ultimately, it is not worth the risk. Take a year to go on a journey and find out what is the truth about God, heaven and hell instead.

    i wanted to know if Jesus’ love could be real to me and I found out that it is. Would hate to have missed that just because i got depressed.

  29. Igor Vasilenko

    Hello everyone!
    The church I have been (and am still) going to has also been strongly divided on this issue.

    What I have come to believe is:

    A REAL, TRUE, BORN-AGAIN CHRISTIAN cannot loose his salvation. Why? Because he would never come near anything like suicide, blasphemy against the holy spirit(an unforgivable sin), even outright lying, as someone here mentioned earlier, if he really is a true christian.
    A real christian knows from reading The Holy Word that in every situation, God is ALWAYS in control, and even in the most tough, challenging times, when everything seems lost, he will rely solely on God and not on himself. He will know that he can do nothing alone, and only God will deliver him from evil (…and deliver us from evil, for Thine is the Kingdom…)

    Do you remember the martyrs for the sake of Christ, like Stephan and Peter, who were stoned and crucified upside-down, respectively? They were in such a terrible situation, that at the moment, suicide seemed a very viable option (from the world’s perspective). Yet, they chose to die one of the most brutal deaths available to man, just so the people will know:
    GOD’S HOLY DOCTRINE IS WORTH DYING FOR, AND WILL STAND FOREVER, amen.

    Anyone who commits suicide has cut back God’s plan on his life, and by this sinned twice: “do not murder”, and “What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost…”

    This is what I believe, and after studying many books just on this subject, I believe have come the the right conclusion.

    Any comments would be great!

    God bless you all,
    Igor.

  30. saikit

    Hi Igor,

    If we follow the same logic here, then Satan couldn’t possibly have fallen as an angel, because if he was truly created by God, then he couldn’t have fallen. Same line of thoughts go for Adam and Eve. If they were truly created by God, and walked with him and knew him, then they couldn’t have fallen.

    A real Christian can choose to stop reading the Bible. Isn’t it?

    A real Christian is capable of cutting himself off from God. Does he lose his free will when he becomes born again?

  31. Igor Vasilenko

    Hi Saikit,

    Thanks for your reply. I understand what you mean, but I am talking about a “real” Christian who chooses to keep the faith and stay faithful to God even though he will occasionally commit sins due to his sinful nature. But, he will ALWAYS repent of them. Read Romans 6:1-2, a verse any real Christian should know by the time they are saved due to it’s vast importance in a believers life…
    If he or she chooses not to repent of any sins they committed, and strays away KNOWINGLY, than we go to this verse to see what happens to them if they die (or commit suicide) before coming back to God and repenting – Hebrews 10:26, clearly states that all those who sin knowingly and do not repent have lost God’s grace to them, unless they repent again and “be saved, but as from fire”.
    I hope this helps,
    Igor.

  32. gary

    Hello young man.
    I’m an older gentleman and like yourself have always trusted in God all my life. I have of course have changed my thoughts on things concerning God’s truth throughout the years. I also believe that with everyone I meet I always will step back and see if I might be enlightened by others insight… for I believe like Paul “We know in part and prophesy in part,” I do believe God wants us to be together as believers. (Look at the story between Paul and Mark. (Can’t stand him one minute and can’t be without him the next.)

    As far as the suicide …I have 2 statements.
    1. You said in one of your articles (paraphrasing) that the only way to blaspheme the Holy Ghost is to Not except salvation. (I think that’s the long and short of this) Suicide is a sad deal but not necessarily a refusal of him.

    2. A true example of one who committed suicide in the Bible and did not go to hell.

    I Samuel 28:7-19 (This a story about Saul and noticed in verse 19 that Saul and his sons will be with Samuel. Samuel was not in Hell and he would have told Saul this if it was to be his fate but his future was with Samuel.)
    Verse 31:3-5 shows Saul committing suicide.
    I truly believe Saul and his sons (who did not commit suicide) are in Heaven with Samuel.

    God bless you and thank you for the opportunity to be on your website
    gary

  33. tyfmq

    Well technically Jesus Christ also committed suicide by allowing the Romans to murder him when he could have saved himself… So is he in Hell right now?

  34. saikit

    Technically most death is premature death for most human beings—gluttony, stress, addiction, abuses, poverty… and most of these are results of our own wrong choices, every little one of them, despite knowing better, so according to your very technical definition of suicide, everyone is in hell, whether they believed in Christ or not, because they either committed suicide by doing what they know they should not do, or murder other people with their wrong choices, such as being abusive to their children, neglect their duty at work…

  35. K. C. Sunbeam

    Hello Sai Kit,

    You do a fine job of explaining the need for repentance, and that Once Saved Always Saved is false.

    I also think it’s cool that you denounce wasteful church buildings and encourage home fellowships. Now how do we get enough people to agree so it can actually be implemented?

    However, I strongly disagree with you about suicide. Suicide is certainly a serious sin. But this doesn’t mean that the person is choosing to die in sin as an act of rebellion against God. They’re typically thinking about nothing but their own despair.

    If suicide merits automatic damnation, then people who lived Christian lives, but on their deathbed told a lie or had a malicious thought, then died; they would be unrepentant sinners too, and also merit damnation.

    Instead, the temporal punishment mentioned in Corinthians chapter 3 after the Judgment can eliminate residual sins, so that Christians can be purified for Heaven.

    I’m about to launch a website of my own; hopefully within the week. Take care.

  36. Trent

    You argue that because you commit suicide, you cannot repent your sin, murder, and will go to hell…but we sin daily, and I highly doubt any of us truly repent every single sin we commit. Sins, no matter how big or small we may see them, are all equal in the eyes of God. We all fall short of the glory of God, and we all have sin we have failed to repent.

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